Tyler Cameron: Reaction: Blackhawks move Lehner and Gustafsson

Tyler Cameron: Reaction: Blackhawks move Lehner and Gustafsson
- Tyler Cameron

So . . . no Panda . . . no Gus.
OK
Does Blowman now go out and re-sign Crawford to a multi-year deal given his age and concussion history?

Not sorry to see Gus go. At all.
I'm just wondering what "the core" thinks about Blowman's day yesterday?
Happy?
Sad?
Pissed off?

Guess we'll get some idea when they play tonight.

Maybe im an outlier, but i believe the money that would've been used to resign Lehner is better used for other players. Kubalik and Strome are going to require huge pay raises. Not too mention, Debrincat is due 6m next year. Then you have Caggiula who will get a bump.

You want them or Lehner? We've seen what two elite goalies look like with this roster. They're trash.

Not too mention, we have 4, count them 4 goalies between Subban and rockford prospects.

I think most people are upset because they developed a bond with Lehner. And rightfully so, so did I.

Maybe im an outlier, but i believe the money that would've been used to resign Lehner is better used for other players. Kubalik and Strome are going to require huge pay raises. Not too mention, Debrincat is due 6m next year. Then you have Caggiula who will get a bump.

You want them or Lehner? We've seen what two elite goalies look like with this roster. They're trash.

Not too mention, we have 4, count them 4 goalies between Subban and rockford prospects.

I think most people are upset because they developed a bond with Lehner. And rightfully so, so did I.
- catrisc

So after Bowman gives these players raises, ADB's new contract kicks in, and Bowman gives Crawford essentially what he is getting now, we end up with the same team next year. Scary!

So . . . no Panda . . . no Gus.
OK
Does Blowman now go out and re-sign Crawford to a multi-year deal given his age and concussion history?

Not sorry to see Gus go. At all.
I'm just wondering what "the core" thinks about Blowman's day yesterday?
Happy?
Sad?
Pissed off?

Guess we'll get some idea when they play tonight.
- savvyone-1

Idk, if the Core is pissed, simply look in the mirror. They had a tough road schedule but they were all against teams they can beat and we’re even with or slightly behind in the standings.

A good game was talked by all about making a run and the importance of the games so you’d think the motivation would be there... but the effort in a lot of those games along with the outcome, sealed the fate of Gus.

Did Stan overplay his hand with both Lehner and Gus? It’s possible and who knows...other than say maybe JJ.

Tyler great write up and overall breakdown.

Chicago had it's best chance last summer to offload Gus IMO for a better return , Stan opted once again to gamble and the end result is what it is.


Regarding Lehner who knows what the real truth is with all the spin.
I would say though it would not surprise anyone if Stan all along never intended on making a serious offer to Lehner's camp and was always intending on resigning Crawford if he could prove he is healthy enough and regain his form.


Everyone keeps saying Chicago is retooling , and close to being a playoff team again.

I just don't see them anywhere close to being their. The telling part was how JC lack of experience and preparation over the summer getting his team focused on the same page and implementing a system that fits his teams makeup.

Carpenter as much as how he has been good in a depth role , he has no business night after night centering Kane and it shows in Kanes on ice play that he can't do it all by himself


Strome I feel should be back at his normal position.

I didn’t think we’d get much for 56 but again no sweetener to the picks we did get in both deals for there teams getting to the finals and the fact we ate half his salary for a second I agree doesn’t seem enough. But now we have a de slot to allow Carlson or whoever they want to give games to as well as Crawford having the net with an opportunity to get the rocks goalie so in a few games. Maybe give Subban the net and see how much he can improve our draft position

I'm not surprised on the return for Gus. Other teams have eyes. They see what Gus is and isn't and the fact that he was never a big point producer until last season should have been a hint he couldn't sustain it. Look at this season. The Hawk power play stinks and they gave up a lot of short-handed chances and goals when their "PP QB" was out there. He's gone. Move on.

Lehner would have been nice to keep long term and he certainly was a more interesting interview then the usual "we gotta be better" and "gotta get pucks deep" crap. I certainly wish the return was better but, it is what it is.

So looking to the 2020 draft now, Hawks have their #1, PITs #2, their own 3rd (the 3rd for Shaw is in 2021) and either CAL or EDM 3rd. The lottery could move them up but, OTT and NJ both have 2 - #1s sitting in the lottery.

Maybe Stan (or his successor) can swing a deal for a few more picks in the 1st 3 rounds.

To be faiiiiiiiiirrrrrr

Toews and Seabrook have bad concussion history. I don't think the organization takes those very seriously.

I never liked lehner. Thought he had an abrasive personality. While on one hand something other than a cliche is fun there's a reason why he hasn't stuck anywhere. Either outrageous demands or he wears out his welcome really fast.

Hopefully the front office and coaching staff get cleaned out in the off season.

So after Bowman gives these players raises, ADB's new contract kicks in, and Bowman gives Crawford essentially what he is getting now, we end up with the same team next year. Scary!
- 67hawks

All im getting at is that you can't mask your deficiencies with elite goaltending. That experiment wasn't effective this year. Time to fix the root cause and that's on the front office to figure out.

I would start with defensive scheme/system, coaching, among others.

Tyler great write up and overall breakdown.

Chicago had it's best chance last summer to offload Gus IMO for a better return , Stan opted once again to gamble and the end result is what it is.


Regarding Lehner who knows what the real truth is with all the spin.
I would say though it would not surprise anyone if Stan all along never intended on making a serious offer to Lehner's camp and was always intending on resigning Crawford if he could prove he is healthy enough and regain his form.


Everyone keeps saying Chicago is retooling , and close to being a playoff team again.

I just don't see them anywhere close to being their. The telling part was how JC lack of experience and preparation over the summer getting his team focused on the same page and implementing a system that fits his teams makeup.

Carpenter as much as how he has been good in a depth role , he has no business night after night centering Kane and it shows in Kanes on ice play that he can't do it all by himself


Strome I feel should be back at his normal position.
- Taylorst1

The margin between playoff team and one that Just misses isn’t that big. Just look at the standings and you’ll see a Hawk team that even after that woeful road trip isn’t completely eliminated from contention.

I think the only team with that current honor is the Wings.

Now if you’re talking about contending or a legit contender like the Hawks were every year during their run say maybe with the exceptions of the two years following the 2010 Cup...that’s a different story.

With some growth from some of the young players and the continued retooling/reshaping of the roster they could be back in the playoffs possibly even next season, but not likely contending for at least 2-3 more.

You keep pointing to them having no high end forward prospects on the the farm. It’s because they are up and playing. I would think the next couple drafts that that will likely be the focus but hoping they always take BPA whether it’s a fwd or dman.

Moving high-end goalkeeper and offensive defenseman is difficult right before the deadline. I was worried they would both stay put, so I am glad they got something. Could be better pick, better prospect, better throw-in, but seems to me like both trades are fair value, which is unexpected on deadline day, sure.

I would definitely prefer not to have player like Gus on my team if they were on route to the playoffs, especially for a 3rd rounder. Would you?

The problem is, none of Subban, Delia, Lankinen trio looks like a solid backup for next year and beyond, considering CC health issues. And in de Haan and Shaw, we can see first hand that hope is not a good plan. Lehner should bring more stability, but I honestly did not sense that he is a good fit long term. And as mentioned above, the money will be needed elsewhere. Still more work to be done at G, though, be it Sorokin or somebody else, I doubt Hawks want to be stuck in another Forsberg-situation like couple years back.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lehner ends up back with the Hawks next year. Where else is he going to go to get close to what he wants in dollars and in term? I am sure he doesn't want a 1 or a 2 year deal, and he certainly does not want to be in a 1A, 1B situation next year. I really don't see him signing back with Ottawa and or Buffalo, 2 teams that can use a #1, so where else would he go? Plus you are going to have Holtby out there, I believe Markstrom is going to sign back with Vancouver, and if he doesn't it is because they can't make the numbers work, would Lehner take less than what Markstrom wants?

Not upset at all here with the deals yesterday.
I do not think Strome gets as huge a raise on his next deal as was anticipated earlier in the year.
Kubilak is a keeper and will get a decent raise.
Can Seabrook come back next year as a pain-free player? That he needed 3 in-season surgeries indicate to me his playing in pain for some time affected his play adversely.
Can deHaan's shoulder allow for him to be a full year player in the future?
It's all about chemistry moving forward.
Speaking of chemistry, the late comments regarding Lehner's willingness to take a bridge do not add up for me. I'm thinking pending UFA's typically aren't the target market for bridge deals.
My glass half-full take is the 'Hawks did some considerable "addition by subtraction" yesterday.

To be faiiiiiiiiirrrrrr

Toews and Seabrook have bad concussion history. I don't think the organization takes those very seriously.

I never liked lehner. Thought he had an abrasive personality. While on one hand something other than a cliche is fun there's a reason why he hasn't stuck anywhere. Either outrageous demands or he wears out his welcome really fast.

Hopefully the front office and coaching staff get cleaned out in the off season.
- fattybeef

You maybe right, we shall never know the truth. I would say in Lehner's defense he and he alone night in and night out played lights out behind a awful team and if itnwere not for his play the record would be worse. Crawford up until recent wasn't playing that great.


I'd say Lehner earned IMO the right to speak out because he came to play where as most of teammates didn't

Maybe im an outlier, but i believe the money that would've been used to resign Lehner is better used for other players. Kubalik and Strome are going to require huge pay raises. Not too mention, Debrincat is due 6m next year. Then you have Caggiula who will get a bump.

You want them or Lehner? We've seen what two elite goalies look like with this roster. They're trash.

Not too mention, we have 4, count them 4 goalies between Subban and rockford prospects.

I think most people are upset because they developed a bond with Lehner. And rightfully so, so did I.
- catrisc

I know also what it looks like with Cam Ward and Collin Delia and AHL Goalie X... and that... is SUPER trash.

Ty-Cam,

Maybe the other defensemen went earlier because the buyers wanted them more than Gus? Other teams are at least as good as internet posters in the area of talent evaluation.

On Lehner.....Colorado and Carolina had the need and the assets to easily outbid Vegas. Yet they chose not to. Why?

On Gus - perhaps, earlier in the process, Stan could have gotten more - a couple of seconds, a 2nd and a fourth.... - but (as I've said here before) I see Gus as a "one-hit-wonder" - one productive offensive season in a pro career that goes back now 9 years, including Sweden and Rockford, with known defensive issues. If he's supposedly good at running the PP, how come the Blackhawk PP is so bad?

Lehner - as you say, who knows what the real story is? The rumors go from his side offering to sign a 3-year deal with the Hawks, to wanting big dollars / big term without any compromise, to wanting $7/7 with only 3 years on a NMC/NTC....One question I have is how come the Isles weren't willing to give him the term he wanted last summer - and apparently, no other team was willing to commit last summer? A Vezina finalist should have gotten closer to what he wanted than that.

Unfortunately, there was no market for goalies this TDL - I don't think any changed teams other than Lehner and Subban - and Lehner's contract demands (which he made well-known over the past several months) may have contributed to the lack of an competitive market for him.

So - with all of that - I gave Stan a solid "B" for his TDL results - he didn't do anything that he wasn't expected to do, but he also did accomplish what he set out to (altho he seems to have over-estimated what the return would be) and the return was as expected.

Drama follows Lehner wherever he goes. He's now on his 4th team in 2 years. Good goalie, but he's too quick to throw teammates under the bus and he rarely shines the light on himself. After he left Buffalo, he was quick to blame the fans and his teammates, but he never took responsibility for his own shortcomings - like drinking a case of beer a day and being hungover for games. Chicago was probably smart to move on. Theres just something not right with him, otherwise both the Islanders and Hawks would have fought hard to keep him. Maybe he's just an bumhole. Anyway, you guys are probably better off and you basically got a 2nd for free

I wouldn't be surprised if Lehner ends up back with the Hawks next year. Where else is he going to go to get close to what he wants in dollars and in term? I am sure he doesn't want a 1 or a 2 year deal, and he certainly does not want to be in a 1A, 1B situation next year. I really don't see him signing back with Ottawa and or Buffalo, 2 teams that can use a #1, so where else would he go? Plus you are going to have Holtby out there, I believe Markstrom is going to sign back with Vancouver, and if he doesn't it is because they can't make the numbers work, would Lehner take less than what Markstrom wants?
- LAHawk

Flames.

Avalanche, Hurricanes, maybe somebody else like Maple Leafs can possibly make space for him, if they believe he’s the man to help them make the next step.

Idk, if the Core is pissed, simply look in the mirror. They had a tough road schedule but they were all against teams they can beat and we’re even with or slightly behind in the standings.

A good game was talked by all about making a sun and the importance of the games so you’d think the motivation would be there... but the effort in a lot of those games along with the outcome, sealed the fate of Gus.

Did Stan overplay his hand with both Lehner and Gus? It’s possible and who knows...other than say maybe JJ.
- HawkintheD

Yep, the core - who are gobbling up a big portion of the cap - had it in their power to make the Hawks TDL buyers.

We did ok; not great. I guess it depends how the draft goes, if Subban can be "fixed" as a goalie, and if the new kid from Denver develops into something. All unknowns.

Matthew Barnaby said on XM yesterday that he heard weeks ago that Lehner was never in the team's long term plans. He intimated that he had sources within the team.

On Lehner.....Colorado and Carolina had the need and the assets to easily outbid Vegas. Yet they chose not to. Why?

I can tell you the Canes weren't interested in giving up assets for a rental goalie who turned them down last summer and is more likely than not to do the same this one.

On avg a teams success and playoff determination is generally made in the first 2 to 3 months.

Starting the season on a losing record for weeks at a time with no consistency of a solid game , cutting down shots , etc doesn't help any teams psyche.

If the plan is to try and make the playoffs , when you still have toews and Kane, Keith , Seabrook that's a low bar wouldn't you say ? Considering the amount of salary tied up in those guys and their ages?

If making the playoffs is part of the overall goal and now you've missed itn3 years in a row , 2 of those years you swapped out a new head coach and improved the teams talent , maybe you relieve JC for the final 20 games let Crawford take over and find out if this team responds better.

I have read multiple TDL analysis and the so called NHL sources all say a 3rd round was about right for defensively challenged dman at the age of 27..